Tuesday, June 12, 2012

In Which I Feel Compelled to Start a Blog Because of a Club and a Unicorn...


I'm not really crazy about blogs.  I read a blog post maybe once every 6 months.  It's just the way I am.  

Today I use this blog as a tool.  And this may be the only post.  

(If you are FB friends with me, you've already heard some of this)  

I want to share my story.  That is all.  

Here goes:  

My name is Ashley.  I am 36 years old.  I have 4 kids, ranging from ages 7 to 14.  I am a part-time professional actress.  I have been divorced for 2 years. Technically speaking, I am LDS.

Yep, I was baptized when I was 8.  I went to BYU where I received a Bachelors in Theatre.  I married a returned missionary in the Mt. Timpanogas Temple.  We were full tithe payers.  I fulfilled several callings diligently, including serving as Primary President for 2 years.

About a year after my divorce, I was chatting with my new bishop, who I had known for several years prior to that.  He asked me, "So, Ashley, why did you and Matt get divorced?"
I replied, "Matt is a homosexual."
I just looked him in the eye after I said this and waited a few seconds while he absorbed it.
Then he asked, "Well, was there another problem as well?  Like drinking? Or gambling?"
I looked him in the eye a second time and replied, "Nope.  Just that."

He was genuinely confused.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was in a mixed-orientation marriage- a marriage between someone who is gay and someone who is heterosexual.  I would venture a guess, an educated one at that, that spouses of mixed-orientation marriages understand homosexuality better than any other 'category' of people, besides homosexuals themselves.  Why do I say this?  Because the marriage relationship is meant to be a sexual one.

Now, let me give you a few seconds to absorb that.

Why do I need to share my experience with you?

Because it’s okay.  It’s okay to talk about homosexuality and how it affects us.

Because there are homosexuals, Mormon or not, who don't know that it's okay.  It's okay to be gay.  It’s okay that you are attracted to people of the same gender that you are.  You didn’t ask for this.  And it’s okay.

Because there are moms and dads and brothers and sisters and children and friends and neighbors who don't know that it's okay.  It’s okay for gay people to be gay.  It's okay for you to know gay people.  To love someone who is gay.  To treat homosexuals the same way they would treat heterosexuals.  It's okay for them to be gay.

And, also, because, frighteningly, there are straight, or heterosexual, spouses of homosexuals who don't know that THEY are okay.  There is nothing wrong with you.  You may feel trapped.  You may be deteriorating.  You mistakenly, and dangerously so, take on the responsibility of 'fixing' your spouse, or at least, the responsibility of lessening your spouse’s homosexual desires by doing your 'duty' as a sexual partner.  And that is incorrect.

All of you know someone who is gay.  And if you doubt that, it's because you just don't know yet that that ‘someone’ is gay.  But not everyone understands what it is-what it means to be homosexual.  Unless you are gay yourself, you'll never really know.  However, if you put aside judgment, put aside fear, and put forth love and an accepting mind, you can get a grasp on it.  You really can.  Talk to your gay loved ones.  Actually, let them talk while you listen.  Let them cry.  Let them scream.  Let them explain.

Let me tell you how my perspective on homosexuality has changed throughout my life.

In high school, my best friend, Chris, was gay.  He was not out, or openly gay, not even to me.  We all knew he was gay, I think, but we didn't want to think about it.  It was the early 90's AND it was Oklahoma.  It was simply not accepted by society.  For example, it was a common occurrence to hear football players comment aloud in class that they'd seen a couple of 'homos' in the store or elsewhere and wanted so much to "bash their faces in".  So that experience didn't necessarily help further my understanding of homosexuality.

Then there was BYU and the theatre department.  All I was WILLING to perceive was that there were some men that seemed more masculine than others.  I didn't entertain the thought of anyone being gay.  We were all at BYU for heaven's sakes!  The 2 things just didn't go together.  The end.

Then there's Matt.  Matt is the man I married.

Before I tell you about my experience with him and our marriage, I want to tell you a few things first.  He is still my best friend.  He knows me better than anyone on the planet, and visa versa.  And, yes, I knew he was attracted to men before we got married.  But that’s not what he said when he told me.  He didn't even say, "I'm gay."

We'd been dating for a few months, when he introduced me to his lesbian sister.  He'd told me that she'd been openly gay for several years and was not a practicing Mormon.

At some point after I'd met this sister, and we'd already said our "I love you's" and were quite seriously dating, Matt said to me one night, "There is something I should tell you.  I have the same problem my sister has."


Problem.

The word 'problem' denotes that there should be a solution.  Or that something is wrong.  That the situation can be fixed.  And, oh, boy!  That was the first thought that came to my mind!  "I will fix it."

What neither of us realized at that time, was there was nothing to be fixed.  There was nothing broken.  There was no perversion within Matt.  There was no disorder or distortion or 'problem'.  Everything about him is right and beautiful.

This is how I now see my best friend and ex-husband.

But at the time, when we were dating at BYU, we were temple-minded.  We were 2 people on the path to a life dedicated to eternal marriage, children, and life-long service in The Church.

After he told me he had the 'problem', the rest of the discussion went like this:

I was quiet at first.  He couldn't look at me as he said it or after.  But I just sat quietly and supportive in the passenger seat of his car.

He went on, "I've never acted on it.  I don't want to.”

We were both quiet now.

Then I spoke, "I don't care.  It doesn't matter."

“I want to go to therapy when I am making enough money to afford it.  There is a certain type of therapy that fixes it."

All of these things sounded very reassuring to me, a 20 year old.  Naive, hopeful, and in-love.

Neither of us realized at the time that it doesn’t go away.

Neither of us understood at the time that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is at the very core of your essential being.  I can base this belief on my experience with Matt and the fact that throughout my life as a Mormon in the theatre community, I have yet to meet one person who said that they used to be gay, but now they are as straight as an arrow.

That night with Matt in his car, I didn’t understand even a little bit, that he, as a true-blue homosexual, was not able to appreciate my femaleness in the way that I would need, that women need.  During our marriage, we did have sex.  It was mechanical.  It felt wrong.  It was like a chore.  It was a way to relieve tension…sometimes.  Other times it only created more tension.  It was not intimate in any way.  Oh, I had orgasms...from time to time...especially once I hit my 30's.  But I could also give myself orgasms, if you know what I'm sayin'.

We both were on our own individual roller coaster of depression, denial, angst, and wanting to die.  A roller coaster we stayed on for 13 years.  And while we were each on our own separate coaster, our kids were on the ground watching us, wondering why we were on a ride that we weren’t enjoying, and why we couldn’t be on an enjoyable ride all together.

Good times existed.  Like I said, we were best friends.  We enjoyed many of the same things.  We laughed a lot.  We were both hilarious.  Both involved in theatre, heavily.  Also, because we were in therapy off and on our entire marriage, our communication skills were superb!  But there was always a pit in my stomach.  A voice in my head telling me, “There is something more,” over and over.

At the altar of the Mt. Timpanogas temple on the day of our sealing in 1997, my subconscious was screaming at me, “What are you doing?!”  On our honeymoon, it was yelling, “What have you done?!”  But it had been drilled into me my entire life to achieve temple marriage at all costs.  That programming made it very easy to shut out my subconscious and its urgent cries.

About 2 years into our marriage, Matt went to therapy.  A wonderful, loving therapist gave Matt the first outlet he’d ever had to talk freely about his sexuality.  He went to group therapy.  He did art therapy.  He did free-writing therapy.  He took Prozac.

He was very gung-ho, but no matter what he did, he still had several bouts of depression- depression so deep that I could feel it whenever I walked into a room he was in.  This cycle continued our entire marriage.

Matt served a mission.  Matt went to church.  He paid a full tithe.  We prayed together.  He accepted callings.  He blessed our babies when they were born.  He baptized 2 of our children.  He gave me blessings from time to time.

A mission, marriage, the church, and therapy did not make Matt heterosexual.  He didn’t become less homosexual.

A few months before we decided the marriage should end, he announced to me that he was ‘taking a break’ from the church.

“Oh?  Why?”  I asked.

“Because the only thing I’ve ever gotten out of it is guilt.”

I looked at him with compassion and said, “That’s awful.  I wouldn’t want to continue on that way either.”

I began to perceive a new Matt.  The weight of the world, and the solar system, and the galaxy were lifted from him.  When people would ask me about Matt’s choice to stop going to church and if it upset me, I would always reply, “This new Matt is so much more pleasant to live with.  I will take this Matt over the old one any day.”

Now let me back up.

Me.

I began therapy about the same time as Matt did- a couple of years after our wedding.  I didn’t understand why I was so angry all the time, and I hated how I felt.  The therapist, though I liked her a lot, never entertained the idea with me that I might be unhappy because of my marriage to a homosexual.

I started taking Zoloft.

I prayed.  Lots.  Not about my mixed-orientation issue, but about how to be happier and better, because I believed the misery of the marriage was my fault.  I believed I wasn’t trying hard enough.  And I didn’t want to try, and that made me feel guilty.  And now I know I was in a severe, deep, dark depression myself.  It was a miracle that I got out of bed every day to take care of our baby.

I cried.  A lot.  I ate. A lot.  I slept as much as I could.  I tried to get out of the house if I even felt the slightest inclination to.  Take a shower, round brush my hair, put on make-up and get out.  But somehow, that always made it worse.

I threw myself into callings.  Obsessed about them.  I took a teaching job at a college that was an hour and a half drive each way, twice a week, just to get away from what I didn’t want to face.  What I could not let myself accept.

It was 5 years into the marriage when I finally did.

Fast forwarding to 2002.  I knew Matt had looked at porn before.  And, yes, of course it was gay porn.  But I thought it was over and repented of.  I didn’t feel a threat necessarily when I learned about the porn.  I felt compassion.  I felt sorry for him.  I knew it was an act of desperation.  But then, in our 5th year, I discovered he was still looking.  And this time, I didn’t feel compassion, because it made me feel like a joke.  “I am married to a gay man!!!  Matt is gay!!  Why am I in this marriage!!  We are both miserable!! Why do I continue to kid myself that this will make me happy?”

Once I admitted this, accepted it, looked it in the eye, I went between feeling trapped and complacency for the next 8 years.  It can make one’s head spin.

At one point during those last 8 years, I wanted to die.  I wanted to cease to exist.  Living was awful.  It felt impossible.

So…

Maybe you’re getting the idea.  I share this brief version of my experience with you so that you can see through my eyes what it means to be gay, and even more specifically, gay and LDS.  The damage was, of course, not just happening to me, but Matt and I were both deteriorating.  That slow, but constant, state of deterioration is easy to mask.  We masked it with things like eating (that was a big one for us) and the self-satisfaction of living the Mormon dream (or fairy tale as I not-so-lovingly call it)- sitting in sacrament meeting each week, looking our best, singing the hymns, smiling and judging everyone else but ourselves.

If you can deepen your understanding of homosexuality, and I’ll quote Carol Lynn Pearson from her book, No More Goodbyes, then,

“parents at home and leaders at church will be able to respond without shock, with more responsible information, more compassion, and more humane guidance.” 

I like the phrase, “responsible information”.  I would offer to you that irresponsible information would be things like, ‘go on a mission and it will go away’ or ‘get married and your wife will fix it’ or ‘fast and repent and pray and serve and you will be made whole’.

I feel a responsibility to tell you that our gay loved ones ARE whole.

I feel a responsibility to tell you that your sexuality does not go away.

I feel an acute responsibility to tell you that marriage does not 'fix' a homosexual.

The book I quote from by Carol Lynn was published in 2007.  She sites that in that year, roughly 1 in 175 children suffered from autism.  We all know someone or at least know of someone who has autism.  She goes on to point out that in that same group of 175 children, 8 of them will be gay.

These are our children.  Or your niece or nephew or grandchild.  Right now, today.  They need love.  It’s that simple.  Love without judgment.  Love without disappointment.  That is called unconditional love.

Who do we believe loves us unconditionally?

Do Heavenly Father or the Savior ever state anywhere in the scriptures to love conditionally?  To love only our heterosexual children?  To love only our children that please us all the time or follow the path we envision for them?  No.

Think of how it feels to feel the Spirit, to feel the Holy Ghost.  I believe with all my heart, that it is God’s Love that we feel in those times.  Is that what a father is feeling when he tells his gay son to leave the house and never return?  Is that how a mother is feeling when she tells her gay daughter that she would rather she’d never been born?

A 20 year old SUU student put it so perfectly when he said, “Can’t I just love who I want to love?  I didn’t ask for this!”

If I, as a heterosexual woman, decided to completely commit to another woman in a romantic, sexual relationship for deeply held religious beliefs, I would be lying through my teeth if I ever told anyone I was truly happy and fulfilled.

Sometimes, perhaps, a lot of the time, our homosexual loved ones will choose to love as they feel naturally inclined, in same-sex relationships.  I believe that they are choosing joy.  I’ve known too many gay men and women personally who have attempted either celibacy or relationships with the opposite sex, because of their strong testimonies of the church, and they DO NOT experience joy.

Men are that they might have joy.

Members of the church who have never deviated from the church’s teachings expect the reward of joy in return.  Gay members who have never deviated from the teachings of the church expect the same.  Many times they do not find it.  So they choose another path, and many times that path, living true to their orientation, keeps them from committing suicide.  Because they have finally experienced joy.

When my husband came out, a friend he’s known for several years contacted him and told Matt he was also gay.  He is also LDS and has never acted on his desires.  He went on to tell Matt that many times he’d seriously contemplated suicide.  Some of those times, he actually planned out the suicide.  He knew exactly how he was going to kill himself, but when the time came to go through with it, he couldn’t.  His words to Matt were, “everyday I regret that I did not have the courage to end my life.”  Again, this man, never has acted on his desires and remains faithful to the church.  Where is his joy?

So in the title of this post, I mentioned a certain other blog post that seems to have gone viral.  I am frightened at the message that the other post is sending.  Some couples might be able to achieve what the Club Unicorn couple is (hell, Matt and I did when the denial and repression were working), but in most cases that type of arrangement can only end badly...and where children are involved, let me tell you first-hand...

I am frightened that the message that other post sends will further encourage Prop 8 or Prop 22 mindedness.

Let me ask you this:  How did those Propositions protect my marriage, my family?  Hm?

They did not.       :)

416 comments:

  1. Ashley I love this. That other blog was beautiful and all and good on them for being able to live life like that.

    I couldn't and honestly.... it frustrates me.

    Thanks for writing this.

    ReplyDelete
  2. This was a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think the Unicorn is the exception to the extreme. I have worried, too, that people would think this arrangement should work for everyone and, therefore, encourage the status quo in the church. I am glad the Unicorns are happy but I don't think there are many out there who could make it work and truly be happy.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thank you for sharing, I really enjoyed your perspective! Do you still attend church regularly? If not you should. I sometimes think that the church needs people like you to be active members to be a missionary of sorts...

    All of the good true Christ-like people leave and become inactive...leaving only heartless jerks. I really think if they would stick around/stick it out they could really make a difference.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Wow. I hear what you're saying. I really do. And thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Thank you, Ashley, for your compassion, understanding, and love. -hug-

    ReplyDelete
  7. Thank you for a very clear counterbalance to the unicorns. I'm not judging their situation but it seemed to be a bit a "Sunday best" sort of view. There are some very complicated emotions to be dealt with in a MOM and I glad to see someone share those realities. Thank you for the post!

    ReplyDelete
  8. I appreciate hearing all views, and I appreciate this post for sure, but I'm not totally sure the Unicorn example needed a "counterbalance." I think that it was intended to be a counterbalance. They said themselves that it was not the answer for everyone. I think that a lot of people have a very different kind of experience, and there's value in hearing all of them in order to get a real and accurate picture of what's going on.

    Thank you to the original poster. I appreciate you sharing your story.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Actually I take back the part about the Unicorns being a counterbalance. My main point is that no one's experience ever invalidates another person's experience. These are both valid experiences.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Well said. You put into words some of my same sentiments after reading the 'other' blog. I am straight married to a straight man.... But I have a gay brother. Who's not even out yet. Who I love. And just like so many others, has lived a life obedient in the church up until now at age 31. But he's not had joy. He's had depression and misery and heartache and guilt, shame, and other horrible feelings and thoughts no one should feel ( every day of his life). Only few know his ' secret' I being one of the first. And I don't like the message he's getting from some of those few and through readings ( like the blog). And get this: I am an active member of the church!!!!! What does that say about my faith then or my testimony? I'm sure many would love to tell just what that means but I just want them( all that are gay and LDS) to know they are okay. I don't want them to feel such sadness. I want them to have joy too!!! Because each person truly deserves that.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Ashley, thank you for sharing your story. I know that you deserve to be loved by someone who loves you as you have loved. You will find that person. My son who is at BYU has already informed us that he will not be marrying a young lady in the temple, he said, "It is unfair to her". You confirm that with your story. A member of our bishopric is the son of a gay man who came out in his adulthood. This member of our bishopric is a wonderful and loving man, who I have the utmost respect for. Your children too will be loving and compassionate to others. A generation from now this will become a non-issue in the church and in our society. Lot's of love to you, your children and to your ex.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a family member who was married to a gay man for about 10 years (Although he did not tell her up front). She also had four children and the affect of the divorce on them was unpleasant to say the least. I actually loved the other blog, because it made me happy that he was able to find happiness in a heterosexual marriage. After becoming a father of my own children, few joys rival having a child with a person that you love. The fact that he could have this is amazing. Anytime we can find true happiness in this life, whether we are homosexual or heterosexual I think that is awesome.

    What scares me is the fact that there is no guarantees that this type of marriage will work until years have passed. They took a great risk that could have been at the risk of their and their children happiness as you have so beautifully articulated in this post and my sister experienced with her children. Thus far things have worked out great for them, and I truly hope they continue to. I hope that people don't think that the Unicorn post was a blue print for how things should work, but rather an option that worked for someone.

    Thanks again for your post. :)

    ReplyDelete
  13. You make very valid points, and I agree with them whole-heartedly. I think the other post made a point to say that their decisions don't work for everyone, just THEM, and it's not a one-size-fits-all answer, but I also believe that ppl could miss that sentence, and try to make it a OSFA solution.

    I've had many boyfriends who were (and still are!) gay, and seriously considered marrying one of them because he truly was my best friend. It was heartbreaking when I decided I couldn't go through with it, because of the ramifications I believed would happen.

    But I wanted more than anything for someone to WANT me, ALL of me. And I didn't marry a couple straight boys because even though we really liked each other, and even though they were attracted to me, we still didn't....fit.

    And now I have my husband. I waited 28 years for him, way past the prime for any LDS girl, and he is not only my best friend, but he's attracted to ALL of me, and let me tell you, it's a happiness that no one would pass up if they knew it existed for them.

    ReplyDelete
  14. This is Mary Smith btw :)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Wonderfully written and so necessary to be put out there for people -- love you!!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Mixed-orientation ex-wifeJune 13, 2012 at 8:58 AM

    I was married to a gay man and so much of what you have said here is achingly true for me as well. He came out after a horrendous bout with cancer, leaving me in shock, but ultimately so much better off that within two months I thanked him profusely for leaving me (he didn't appreciate that LOL). I found a man who truly feels passion for my heart, mind and body, and the difference has been night and day. I was 20 when I met my first husband, too, and he was from a very conservative farm family in the Midwest; being gay was unacceptable. People need to be loved for who they are, and to be free to love whom they love.

    ReplyDelete
  17. thank you so much for this blog. I agree, I feel that it is extremely important that the other blog doesn't become the "cure" for homosexuals in the church because quite frankly, it is definitely the exception. I am HAPPY though that he and his wife have "outed" themselves for the simple fact that THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS NEW! It is just "new" conversation that is coming out from the dark for so long. It is one of those "uncomfortable" topics within the church, just as African Americans and the priesthood. This HAPPENS, OFTEN... yet no one wants to talk about it. Under rug swept. I don't understand how it is okay for so many of our brothers and sisters who deal with these issues to often times feel so alone is such intimate spaces. I am incredibly happy for the Weeds, they are making it work. I will not judge them nor anyone else. They're doing it, but SO many in the church do not- straight or gay. I myself am grateful for the communication that is taking place about all of this. SOMETHING seems to be missing from the big picture. I am not sure what it is, but there is something missing. Whether it will be revealed or disclosed- no one knows... but there is something missing because things within the church are painted so black and white. Not saying that things shouldn't be, but I agree- we are to have joy. The fall of Adam was so that we might have joy. I believe our Heavenly Father to be extremely gracious and loving- TO ALL of his children. In the Beatitudes Jesus asks his disciples about giving good gifts. I believe that only the Father knows what is going to happen to us all after this life. It is not for me to "figure out" someone else's salvation. Unfortunately, there are many in all the world who do. My intimate life is my business as is my spiritual one. Thank you again for this article as well. For your honesty, your frankness and openness about a very painful part of your life. I like the conversation- because it needs to be had. We all just need to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I believe in the institution of marriage. I am glad that the vows exist, and I believe they should be kept. I also believe that it is a kindness to all involved to end said pact before those vows are broken...broken not by homosexuality, but by repression and a desperate attempt to find joy. Sex is an important ingredient in a marriage "stew", and true intimacy comes from honesty and acceptance...not from repression and self-loathing. Thank you for this story...I hope it helps others find their personal joy...

    ReplyDelete
  19. [...] via In Which I Feel Compelled to Start a Blog Because of a Club and a Unicorn… « Ashleys Tiny Crumbs. [...]

    ReplyDelete
  20. Thank you for your candor as well as your insight. Hopefully, this will continue the dialogue about sexuality and the fluid nature of it, as well as how it is perceived vs. the reality of it in the LDS faith. My heart goes out to you, your ex-husband, and your children. Prayers your way.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I was a child of one of those marraiges. Though my father didnt tell my mom about it till he was almost arrested for hiring a male prostitute. He was living a double life, which was dangerous and just as destructive. If he had just been able to come to terms with it, accept who he was, and leave with dignity. He ran off and married someone else (she was soooo stupid, she makes Bevis and Butthead look like rocket scientists) just to cover up who he was. The White knuckling for the reward, is not how you get the reward im afraid. I do not believe the lord wants you to suffer. thats about all I can say right now. Thank you for posting, maybe my life would have been better without all the abuse and terror that I lived through, as my father was venting in ways to deal with the world he was hiding, and hiding from. The best and worst about a human is expressed in their sexuality, that is where you see all aspects of that person. I hope somehow, we can embrace who a person really is.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Marriage is a big risk in itself but that doesn't mean its not worth the risk. We can't live in a bubble with no risk. Look how the unicorn was rewarded for his risk on living the principles of the gospel. It was a great risk and he was greatly rewarded. I am glad its working for them. If it doesn't work for others I am saddened. I hate nothing more than a family breaking up. Its truly a tragedy. Sorry it didn't work for Ashley. She sounds awesome, thoughtful, loving,dedicated to her family, all those traits I find admirable. I am sorry for your loss. I am sorry it didn't work out. I hope your children may heal from the trauma caused by this loss in your life and theirs. Tragic. I Hope this finds Ashley and her family well as I see the hurt and loss in her story.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Much needed dialog is being had due to the unicorn. Thank you Ashley for your thoughts. I am sorry for you loss. I hope this finds your family well. You are a beautiful person and I needed to hear yours to better understand. Thank You.

    ReplyDelete
  24. This was great. It is being shared with all my friends to share with their families. The Lord is still blessing you, though, honey. And your testimony has not gone unheard.

    ReplyDelete
  25. The Church and it's prophets make statements and teach our children the exact opposite of this blog post. Being the understanding parent will not counteract all the teaching and community examples of gay misunderstanding and misinformation. A child raised in the LDS community that then grows up and realizes they are gay will have deep social, emotional and mental ties to a community that will reject them or force them to live a lie. The church does not change from within. Liberal members or those with a different point of view are marginalized. I am so much happier, my family and spouse are so much happier, after leaving the church, it's ideas and the community behind. The clincher for me while hearing Packers conf. talk, was "what if one of my kids is gay? I can't do this to them or any other gay kid." I loved the faithful LDS life, but I had no idea how much happier my life could be outside the church. The only way for anyone to make an impact on the Church is to live life honestly. If you disagree with the prophet, say so and leave the church. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Thank you Ashley for sharing your story! I have a friend whose story is almost identical to yours. I hope this post goes viral/gets circulated along WITH the Weedy Unicorn's so that others can see two very divergent experiences with mixed-orientation marriages. I think your experience is probably more the norm for LDS MOM coulples and I too was very worried when I read their post that it would inspire a whole new generation of failed mixed-orientation marriages (although I am happy for and respect their experience). I am an active LDS, married, mom, but I think this is especialy problematic in LDS culture where there is such a strong doctrinal emphasis on marriage, coupled with strong social norms that pressure people to marry at a very young age - often when folks are just coming to terms with and understanding their own sexuality. Top on that forms of external and internalized homophobia, and I think this creates a recipe for unnecessary risk taking in marital decision-making for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. Thank you, thank you, for being so brave by sharing your story! I'm certain your post will be helpful for MANY.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Thanks Ashley!! Gay man here, also formerly married in the SL Temple to a woman (who is now very bitter and does everything she can to keep me from my kids). I appreciated your candor and willingness to share and counter the prevailing thoughts of LDS people that therapy and marriage and Prop 8's will help keep things together. Sending hugs to you and to Matt and your family!!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Beautifully written, deeply moving. Thank you! This deserves to "go viral" too.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Thank you for posting a mature, courageous blog. I am always proud to see my friends connect with their most intimate part of who they are, and know it well enough to see how it relates to others. Peace to your family on this healing journey!

    ReplyDelete
  30. Having gone through almost the exact same experience and your husband, and because that blog really didn't set well with me, I thank you for this. This seems way more genuine, honest and authentic. I'm sorry but being joyful every day and constantly happy while never having a sexual attraction but having complete intimacy seem like the Shakespearean comment "me thinks thou protesteth too much".

    ReplyDelete
  31. I loved the club unicorn story. I never thought for a second it was something everyone could achieve especially in today's society. But I do feel it is something that could work if society changes.

    You can't really compare your story to their story, at least not successfully. My heart breaks that you both had so much turmoil in your marriage.

    The main difference from the club unicorn story is the support structure that was in place from day one. As you stated in your story it was kind of viewed as a bad thing. People viewed it as a bad thing, wanted to beat down homosexuals.

    As long as that is present there will always be stories like this unfortunately. I truly believe if society changes, stories will work out more in favor of the club unicorn version and until society changes we will see more sad heart breaking stories like this one.

    I can't imagine how hard it was to go through that for your entire marriage. But thank you it was a good story.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Life is hard for everyone! Not just gays! I am a heterosexual and have had so much depression! This life is to be tested!

    ReplyDelete
  33. Or, alternately, society can change so that gay people will just be able to love and marry the individual they choose, the individual their heart tells them to.

    Seems like a much quicker, and more likely, societal evolution than trying to force heterosexuality down everyone's throats. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  34. Yeah, then we could all listen to our hearts and just do whatever we want because our heart told us to. Nick for president!

    On a more serious note. You may not be religious, or believe in all of the religious beliefs. However, you do live in a religious world. It is possible to view homosexuality as a sin AND not hate/judge the person but to show understanding, compassion and love.

    ReplyDelete
  35. James, I'm not sure you really listened to what Ashley said here... Her marriage didn't fail because she didn't have an adequate support structure in place. It failed, as she said, "Because the marriage relationship is meant to be a sexual one."

    I'm very grateful to Ashley for sharing, partly because for a lot of people reading Josh Weed's story, the take away point is "See, all you homosexuals out there practicing your sinful life styles, you CAN do it." It's just not helpful... Josh himself made a fairly moving statement about loving all people unconditionally and supporting them in the difficult task of making life choices -- even if you personally disagree with those choices, that are being lost on a lot of his readers.

    ReplyDelete
  36. John, I listened and even liked the article and the point it was making. I do not for a second believe marriage is based on sexuality, or even meant to be a sexual one. With that it's like saying 70+ couples who no longer have sex must have a poor marriage, it just doesn't make sense.

    What I took from the club unicorn article is that sex in a MOM type marriage CAN be successful. However, in today's society it is the minority. Sadly they do mostly end like Ashley stated, but I don't believe it has to be that way.

    Marriage is sooooooooo much more than just sex.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Clifton - Oh, sure, there's always risk in marriage (there's risk in EVERY decision). But sometimes LDS marriage culture creates undue pressure for LDS couples to take unnecessary risk. Even many heterosexual couples fall prey to the idea that you can marry anyone and make it work - just as long as you're righteous enough. I think this kind of thinking is SO dangerous. I find it Akin to Luke 4:9-12, where Christ is tempted. His 3rd temptation was to do something extremely risky and then ask God to save him. Christ won't jump because "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." I can't help but wonder how often we do this as Latter-day Saints (including myself). We make incredibly risky decisions (from marrying someone we may not be compatible with, to buying a home we can't afford, to...you name it!) and then call on God and ask Him to save us while we jump. I want to be clear - I am NOT condeming Ashley (or any other divorced person!) for taking a great risk in marriage - most people I know act in good faith, with all good intentions when they decide to marry. I'm merely questioning your (Clifton) assumption that it is always wise to take "great risks" in search of "great rewards." The Weeds took a great risk, and things seem to have worked out for them. But for most LDS mixed-orientation couples (like Ashley), it doesn't work. Ashely's story reflects the harm inflicted upon LGBT people (and their families), by both our church and the broader culture, because of our lack of understanding and acceptance of homosexuality. But I also think her story reflects the harm done by such intense cultural pressure in the church to marry young and at all costs.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Agreed, it is way more than just sex -- I don't think that's what Ashley was saying either. But sex is an important part of marriage. It's what sets marriages apart from mere friendship.

    I don't begrudge Josh and his spouse any happiness they've found... I'm happy for them. I just see a lot of people using their case as an excuse to make life more difficult for the vast majority of gay men and women for whom such relationships will never work, and who deserve the chance at happiness that a loving, committed, intimate relationship can offer.

    Also, for what it's worth, not all religious people believe homosexuality is a sin...

    ReplyDelete
  39. Thank you for this, it was truly needed.

    ReplyDelete
  40. yes this is a hard topic. I am not in awe of the unicorn's experience. It is a valid experience. I also feel that WAY too many of my straight friends have been putting this new blog out there as the gay solution for all truly righteous gays. So many have been so happy that the answer to the "problem" is found.

    I read the weed blog and my first reaction was- well I'm like Josh Weed, married- 3 kids, and gay- and it's not working out for me the way I'd thought it would. I wish my life sounded as blissful as his. I wish my wife knew the real me- and understood me.

    While I find myself at 30 years old, much the same as Josh Weed, I don't find the rose path and white picket fence, perfect happy family model that they're portraying. I did not read that they felt this was for everyone at all.

    Then tons of friends and family and relatives all who are straight, or even some gay, sending links to ALL their friends, saying this is amazing- this is new- this is the way forward in the gay front....

    Not knowing that it's hurtful to those involved often. Just like the man in sunday school who says that homosexuality in and of itself is a sin because they have chosen to go against god's will in unnatural ways.

    Oh believe me- I am not created by mistake. I am not wrong. I am ok with who I am. I am not unnatural. My feelings inside are no more sinful than those of men who love vaginas. I am a godly man. I love God. I want to be who I am. At this point, I've made choices that bring me to think I'm not a good candidate to come out. I don't want the turmoil- the attention- the pain or relief that may be caused to my family and kids and wife. I've been un-fair by doing what I've done to lie to myself for SO long.

    I was 12. My bishop found out that I was aroused by images of men. He told me that it was not like me- that this was not who I was- and that it was a sin. I believed him. I believed him that I could change- and that it was not who I was. I believed him that I was sinning. I changed and repented and prayed and fasted, and tried to change who I was. I believed that I had. I got married, not even knowing that I was truly still in fact same sex attracted, and gay.

    So- there you have it. Being Gay and Mormon are not easy mixes. It's like oil and water. I am still both- I'm still a closeted man. I honestly plan to be that way forever. I don't feel bad about this. Within the bounds of where I've been planted in life- I feel that it's within my power to be a happy straight man. My wife is happy with me- happier than I could think she would be. I know she is happy with her attraction to me, and to our sex life. She is in the dark- as I was for the first 5 years of my marriage.

    It's been 3 happy years after I had come to grips with who I really am- I'm gay.

    I am still happy in my marriage.
    I am.
    I know that if things had been as open 10 years ago as they are now- that I'd be in a different path in life. Because I was born earlier though- I don't want to rock the boat.
    I choose to procreate and have kids- and a wife, and a home, and strive for the family life. I feel responsible to remain that way. For my kids and wife.

    My wife happens to be severely homophobic. She still believes it's a choice to be gay. She would not understand, and would be ruined if our marriage was a sham. I don't want her to think that. I do love her. I want to be a unicorn. I just wish the circumstances were such that other people could love me for who I am. You know.... not even in a sexual way. I just want people to accept gays as people. I'm totally human. I'm not a sin. I'm not a sinner. I'm a good man. I am created in the image of God. And I'm gay.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Thank you so much for writing this.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Ahh! Finally what I was looking for in a response to other said viral blog! I agree with you completley, and think your story is much more realistic, honest, and human. I'm glad you even brought up the issue of pornography, because I was left confused after reading Mr. Weed's story; if he claimed to not be bisexual, but to have a robust and full sex life with a woman, where does arousal and excitment fit in here? I mean, I know that sort of detail seems nitty gritty, but he left a lot unexplained. All I can say is, thank you for your words and insight:-)

    ReplyDelete
  43. Thanks for writing something so insightful and so personal. I'm sure you'll get your fair share of churchy criticism but not everyone wants to deal with reality equally.

    Best of luck to you moving forward.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Oh I know not all religious people believe it is a sin, I make no argument there. And I even admit there is a possibility I am wrong. I don't believe sex is an important part, I believe people believe it is.

    But anyone can have sex together in or outside of a marriage. People will cheat on their spouse. Sex can be wonderful. But marriage to me is more about unifying yourself with your partner, becoming one. People often confuse that with sex.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Are you serious? The sexual organs feel pain/pleasure from touch/sensation they could care less where it is coming from. It is the human mind that interferes. Are you saying he isn't sexually aroused because he is gay sleeping with his wife?

    If you blind folded me and put me in a room and something touched my sexual parts, it would feel good.

    He simply overcame the limitations many people have in unsuccessful sexual relationships.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I agree with what you say about marriage... Love, unity, commitment, caring... Without that, the sex is pretty meaningless.

    ReplyDelete
  47. I haven't read all the comments but I wanted to tell you thank you. I am out, I was raised mormon, I have told my family and I have left the church but the guilt still follows me. I am lonely and I can't escape the emptiness I feel around my family the ones that are supposed to love me no matter what, and I'm sure the do, but the kind of love that is "hate the sin, love the sinner" wow, thats so sincere. anyway thank you because I could feel your love, true, caring, selfless love. so owell... maybe zoloft or prozac will solve my problems... ;) j/k I'm slowly figuring out how to be happy.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Having said that, I'd also like to point out that that's really all most gay and lesbian couples who want to be married are asking for as well. They want love, caring, unity, commitment. And they want a social support structure to help them when times get rough (as times inevitably do in a life-long marriage).

    ReplyDelete
  49. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This story nearly mirrors my own. The "Unicorn" blog seems like propaganda to me. This is authentic and expresses what people need to hear.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I also think they should be allowed to marry. Just because people -think- it is a sin, doesn't mean we should deny them the right to make their own choices and marry people they choose. I don't think they should ever be allowed to force a church to marry them if the church chooses not to. But I am all for allowing people the same God given rights I am blessed with.

    ReplyDelete
  51. from a purely physical standpoint, yes. Blindfold a man and have people touch his penis and he will be turned on. From a deeper standpoint- what is intimacy all about... can there by true intimacy if a man does not fully understand his wife in all ways? A woman who had a straight husband wouldn't want him to ogle women in bikinis in his mind all day long. Similaryly, a gay married man in a a mixed gender relationship, would have to constantly fight against not only the attraction all gays have to other men, but also the psychological issues that would come in being someone he is not, in pretending to be something else, in being true to how he feels internally, by finding a missing feeling in his soul, by wanting to change but not able to change it any more than a person can change their height by thinking more about it.

    A gay married man can have sex with a woman. It's totally physically happened before, and it happens all the time in lives of people who are in those types of relationships/marriages. It is not the same on a commitment level, or the same on an emotional level, a psychological level, a comfort level, or even the same gratification level...

    ReplyDelete
  52. "I’m totally human. I’m not a sin. I’m not a sinner. I’m a good man. I am created in the image of God. And I’m gay." -beautiful

    ReplyDelete
  53. Thank you for telling your story! While on one hand I am thrilled for the Weeds that they are happy (at least, they re in this moment), I'm terrified that as that story goes viral, the "marry the gay away" era of mormonism will come back. While mixed-orientation marriages CAN work, it is definitely not something we should promote! Better yet, no one should ever be placed in that position in the first place, where the only options are a mixed-orientation marriage, or a life of celibacy.

    ReplyDelete
  54. We could have a new campaign all over the world for the Mormons.... I'm Gay, I'm married to a woman, and I'm mormon. I agree- This is not the way that gay men should feel so forced to go. It could be something that is an option for some, but the weeds blog made it sound like it really is not only something that was possible for them, but something to be strived for in the gay youth that feel the impossibility of their future ahead of them. Why not accept the gay people for who they are. people. just like you and I. God's people.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Thanks, James. It looks like we're substantially in agreement then -- at least about the larger issues.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Thanks Ashley for putting this out there. I think this is more of the norm than Josh Weed's situation is. Marrying someone of the opposite sex is not the answer for most gay people, and a prudent person wouldn't attempt it unless she has a confident and non-deluded belief that it would work out. At the very least if you are going to marry someone who is gay, then you should have sex with that person on a fairly consistent basis before committing. Then you will better know if your wants and needs might be satisfied before getting into it. If you belong to a religion that discourages pre-marital sex, then you have other problems.

    ReplyDelete
  57. No problem. It refreshing to have a conversation like the one we had rather than an argument which so often happens. =(

    ReplyDelete
  58. Thank you! We were commited christians and in a straight marriage together for almost 5 years when my spouse came out to me as Transgender. She is now transitioning to female. I have always been bi-sexual, so we are staying together, and the relief in just being ourselves has been unbelievable. Having been told by angry and sad family members that we were just supposed to be fighting this the rest of our lives, your post made me cry, in a good way. Being told that you have a sort of unhealthy addiction or disorder, and that you are wrong to be who you are, is kind of like being told that they would rather you be dead. That love, and the love in the unicorn post you referenced, is very very conditional. Once again, it is saying that there is only one right way to be human, only one right way to be Queer, only one way to be that which god loves. If we had come out as queer but commited to "living god's way" (which would essentially be continuing to live a lie for us) the christian community would have hailed us as heros and told us how brave we were for fighting the good fight. But because we chose to live authentically, most of the christian community despises us, votes against us, and refuses to hear us or be near us. That is conditional, no matter what they want to call it. What scares me the most about the Unicorn post, is the many many comments from people with relatives who are queer, who somehow feel as though they've just been given a guidebook on ho to "fix" their relative.

    ReplyDelete
  59. It seemed to me like -- with at least some Church statements -- we had turned the page on that "marry the gay away" idea, as you call it. But here it comes back with a vengeance, and not from official channels but from gay men who are still trying to marry.

    For what it's worth, I think the problem is that the only alternative the Church offers to marriage is life-long celibacy. And nobody wants that.

    And guys like Josh desperately want to be in the good graces of the Church... So there you have it... 1 + 2 = 3

    I've said elsewhere, the "Evergreen" approach is at least compassionate in the sense that it recognizes that people need human intimacy. They long for relationships. And you can't just take it away.

    Thank you again, Ashley, for saying what you've said here: To be gay is OK. For gay people to love each other and want to be in relationships is OK.

    Until we absorb that concept as a Church, though, Josh's path will be inevitable for a certain number of gay men and lesbians.

    ReplyDelete
  60. John, I still take it you are straight. Imagine that you were told the only way you could stay within the bounds of what is right and socially acceptable and correct in God's eyes is to not have sex with women. You have to have it with men if God is to love you. You have to only have sexual relations with a man you aren't attracted to. Does that feel good to you? Do you still want to have a non-sexual relationship with that woman who you are attracted to if it is only about friendship, love, unity, commitment, and caring if it means you can't have sex with her ever?

    Turn the tables. It's quick to see that it's hard to imagine a life where celibacy or losing your family/support system, or disappointing your God and maker are your only options.

    People who are straight only see one side. They don't see the inner turmoil. They don't see the self-loathing, and the unaccepting nature of those who feel that Christianity is best served by calling someone else's idea of love as SIN and immorality. What of those christians who are wanting to believe- who are gay- who cannot choose happiness. There is no path that gives them happiness in the church. It doesn't seem like a path that you'd want for this "short" "temporary" life until you can go to heaven and then be changed into whatever God wants for you... assuming that you get to change then after death...

    It's not a choice these people have made- and it's sad to see people trying to keep them from love- and from closeness and from real relationships simply because they don't agree with the idea of sex between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Thank you. Perfect :-)

    ReplyDelete
  62. I feel tremendous empathy for pain. I experience my own, and it is very hard to know what to do with it. Sometimes ending things seems to be the only way and then a light, and hope appears. I have struggled relentlessly with people who are born with same sex attraction. Is it a struggle like being born without legs, or being born in Rwanda? Or the little girl who is borne into a home of incest? How do we mete out pain and make it all ok? I just don't know. What do we say to the man who claims he is born with the desire to be with small children.... 25 years ago an attorney told me that same sex marriage was coming. I was incredulous....and now it is the norm, although highly charged. So what is next? I am not being contentious, I just don't understand. I am tired of being told I am a homophobe if I am against same sex marriage, or a racist if I don't like the policies of my president. I have honest questions and no one wants to answer them. Just help me understand

    ReplyDelete
  63. Yea, I understand what you are saying. But I can't help but think that the prophets and leaders are capable of making mistakes because of their humanness and because of prejudices that were planted into their minds from an early age.

    It's interesting that Spencer Kimball fasted and prayed and fasted and prayed for many, many years in order to allow African Americans to have the priesthood. It kind of makes you wonder why previous prophets didn't...I suspect it was because of personal prejudices that were handed down to them from their fathers and mothers. Spencer Kimball was the only one open enough to even pose the question before God.

    I wonder if there are any of the old timer authorities now that are even asking the question towards God...or are they too blinded by prejudices?

    If we stick around and lovingly try and change these prejudices in our own children and in the people around us, then when they grow up to be leaders, maybe they will be open to begging God to make it so that ALL people who are in love can be married for eternity.

    We are all in the Church for a reason. We all at least at one time recognized truth and goodness in it. I believe that we can make a change for the good.

    ReplyDelete
  64. I am very glad that the Unicorn couple have been able to find something that works for them. SO glad that they can tell their own story, because I know the power in someone telling their story: owning their own life. I HATE how it is being used by people to promote their ideas of what success is. I HATE how people now think they understand what it is like to be gay - as if that one blog described everyone's experience. I HATE how in that blog, he still talked about being gay like it was a problem, a sin, something to be overcome...

    I don't know if you'd call my experience in marriage a "mixed orientation marriage". I had no sexual interest in my husband. Good friends. Talked, laughed, and had good times together, but sex was nothing but a chore for me... I tried... and finally decided I just couldn't force myself to like sex, or to have that kind of relationship with him (and quite possibly with anyone). Hearing the the Unicorn story, he (my now ex husband), was upset. "How could they promote living like that?"

    Thank you for sharing your story!!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Good questions Anonymous. You are not a homophobe or a racist. You just have trouble believing in a God who creates freakish disabilities and hellish, unrelenting trials for his children. You have trouble believing in a God who creates a homosexual or a pedophile, and then asks them to act against nature, forgoing all sexual fulfillment their entire lives. But this is our God. The same one who asked Emma to practice polygamy, and Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and Peter to be crucified upside down. Finally, Mormons are having a discussion about how deep the nature of our loving Heavenly Father really is.

    ReplyDelete
  66. You assume that homosexual individuals are the only people being told by the church that they are not allowed to have sex. There are many heterosexual, strait men and women who are faithful in the church, and single. They are expected to only have sex within the bounds of marriage, just as homosexuals.

    God's law is no sex outside of marriage, regardless of sexual orientation. There are many people who live their lives like that, gay and strait. I don't pretend to know or understand what it means to be homosexual and the inner turmoil that comes with that. But I don't believe it is unfair that unmarried individuals are taught to not have sex. That particular commandment is true for all people, not just the gay ones.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I have to wonder if the Unicorns ARE truly happy. They are living a fraud.. be it open or closeted. I was raised in the Mormon faith, and my father is a HIGH leader (to which I will not list his calling), and if I know one thing about the religion... you PERSEVERE and put on a front. Period. There is no failure. You smile thruogh the pain, and you don't burden others with your unhappiness. I wonder how happy the Unicorns will be when they are SHUNNED by the others in their church now that this is out?

    ReplyDelete
  68. I just wanted to let you know I think you're totally awesome and brave for telling your story. And there is a story behind every relationship. Sometimes the stories are very different than what is expected.

    And my inner 12 year old is giggling at your blog's name: setting things straight. Of course, some things cannot be straight. Hah!

    Off to time out.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I've read both this blog and the "Unicorn" blog in the past two days, and I am grateful that both of you are willing to share your story, as it cannot be easy. I have a couple of thoughts following these two blog posts.

    First, many people seem to think that the Weeds' blog post was written in order to tell gay Mormon men and women that they can and should have a happy heterosexual marriage. In fact, if you read the blog, it clearly states that they wrote the blog post because Josh had been sharing his homosexuality with others in a therapy setting, and they were concerned that their family, friends, colleagues and loved ones might find out about it in a way that was traumatic or difficult. Instead, they wanted to be in control of how they shared the information with all the people they care about, and a blog post was the best way for them to do it. I can support that--it would be very difficult for that information to come out from other sources and be constantly telling and re-telling their story to everyone they love, especially telling it in a way that was as compelling and insightful as their blog post.

    Having said that, there are many people who either didn't read that part, didn't pay attention to that part, or are just misusing the information in the blog to try and say this is the "cure" for homosexuality for faithful Mormons. I don't think that is the Weeds' fault, and I think it is inevitable that people who want to believe that homosexuality can be "cured" through faith will point to their situation as the ultimate proof that gay, faithful Mormons should enter into mixed-orientation marriages. Those same people may hear 10,000 stories that end the way Ashley's marriage ended, and still believe that the story of the Weeds is proof it works. Unfortunately there is no way around it.

    What I love about both of these posts is the big takeaway message - LOVE! Not just loving someone because they are like you, or they follow the religious teachings that you believe in, but truly loving everyone no matter how they choose to live their private sexual lives (whether that is a heterosexual marriage, no marriage, a mixed-orientation marriage, a same-sex relationship, or anything and everything in between). More compassion and love, more understanding that being gay is not a choice, and that everyone deserves happiness, is what we need. Not just in the LDS community, but all over our country and all over the world.

    ReplyDelete
  70. In response to Lizl and the "doctrine" quoted. Like MANY OTHER quotes from the bible... these are all-encompassing terms... "between a MAN and a WOMAN". The bible is long enough without having to be politically correct. I think that the "MAN and a WOMAN" sentiment refers to the relationship and the commitment, not the gender of the two. If the bible referred to the family unit encompassing (between a man and a woman, and a man and a man, and a woman and a woman, and a single woman, and a widowed man, etc...) it would be another thousand pages long!!!

    ReplyDelete
  71. beautiful and honest. thank you for for perspective that that's not for everyone. I feel for you that you went through all that (and Matt).

    ReplyDelete
  72. This is a very sad story, and the bomb that you dropped near the end about his continued addiction to porn came as no surprise. You are mistaken about (at least) one thing though: It can and does go away. Thousands have left the lifestyle and thought patterns and behavior and self-imposed identification (since that's all "gay" is) behind forever. It's not "okay to be gay," and it's not something you're born with. Besides those points, it was interesting to read your perspective. I had SERIOUS issues with the Club Unicorn story as well, mostly because it made no sense, but also because it was doctrinally unsound.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Amazing. I wish my Ex wife could/would read this. She abhors that I am gay!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Acting on desires can go away, but the thought patterns definitely do NOT. Even the most ardent of believers in reparative therapy say they still have homosexual thoughts and desires regularly. Acting on them is another thing, entirely.

    And the only way to leave a "lifestyle" is to leave life. There is not a gay "lifestyle" any more than there is a straight "lifestyle." Having intimate relations with someone does not a lifestyle make, and your use of such a loaded, inaccurate term belies your ignorance.

    ReplyDelete
  75. DG,

    Name one medical or psychological association which agrees with your beliefs that homosexuality can be 'cured.' Anecdotes have been shown to be untrustworthy. Can you also cure being straight? I bet the results would be similar. Even so, what's wrong with being gay? Why is it 'not ok?'

    ReplyDelete
  76. Thank you for sharing your story. Much of it could have been my story. The unicorn story could have been us at the height of his denial and my ignorance. Ignorance is not married bliss. The comments that I have read about their story by those who want to believe it are disheartening for those of us who have been the straight spouse.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Further, how do you know sexual orientation isn't something you're born with? Have you experienced homosexual attractions and quelled them? When did you choose to be heterosexual? Do you work to have sexual feeling for your wife? Your arrogance is disgusting.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Like Mr. and Mrs. Weed, my wonderful ex-wife and I were in Unicorn la-la land for many years ourselves. I'm glad that they are happy, but my experience and gut tell me they will eventually make the same discovery we did, far later than we should have.

    It's tragic that I let a baseless religious prejudice convince me and my wife that we should subject ourselves and our children to a relationship that was a beautiful friendship, but a poor substitute for a deep and real love. The gospel doesn't change your orientation... and brings only guilt, shame, and tragedy if your aren't oriented the "right" way.

    Marriage (and indeed, being human) is about having not only a sexual, but also a full emotional and spiritual connection with another person. Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Weed will be OK being less than full people for the rest of their lives. I'm a believer that people should always have the freedom to define their own relationships and their own happiness. That belief, however, doesn't prevent me from feeling sad that Mr. and Mrs. Weed may never know the depth of love that each of them is suppressing out of ignorance and prejudice. Likewise, that belief does not prevent me from feeling sad about the burdens my wonderful ex-wife, my children, and I had to bear as a result of the change in our relationship we were compelled to make in order to have the life that we should have had if we had only been wise enough to disregard the bad advice of Mormon doctrine from the beginning.

    Thank you for this post. This truth needs to be spoken from the rooftops.

    ReplyDelete
  79. You have the gift of articulateness and like the previous poster said, "this truth needs to be spoken from the rooftops." Thank you for sharing your story during this time when everyone is discussing this complex issue. I will pass this on and hope that it too becomes viral!

    ReplyDelete
  80. I think Mr. Weed will find that his "addiction" to porn will immediately disappear once he follows his true orientation and actually goes on a date and gives a very chaste good night kiss to that special guy. Funny how he marries someone he's not attracted to and every cell of his body is screaming for him to focus it elsewhere. The church's response? You're addicted, try harder. Sick.

    I should know. I spent years, many thousands of dollars, and an incalculable amount of faith, tears, and untold desperate prayers trying to overcome my "same sex attraction" and the hole in my soul. That was all instantly cured the moment I actually allowed my self to feel love toward another man. Compulsion for porn--gone. Empty feeling--gone. Feeling spiritually shut off from God--gone.

    DG, you have no clue at all.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Successful marriage are full of brutal honesty, give and take, love and commitment. The hollow "happily ever after" is a lie, and as an active LDS, heterosexual woman married to a man, I have to say that it sounds like there was a lot missing in your experience of sitting on a church bench singing meaningless words, writing tithing checks that were just checks and fulfilling callings to run away from the other emptiness you felt as you tried to fulfill the ingenuine life that someone taught you would bring you happiness. I'm so glad I have not been taught that going through motions makes you happy! I feel like what you described here is a recipe for any couple, heterosexual or otherwise to fail and what Josh and Lolly describe is what I find happiness in...which is a marriage based on sincerity and painful honesty and compromise, frienship, love and difficulty. I would have so appreciated your story if you weren't degrading what is true for someone else by sharing your truth. I wish your post was born of a desire to say, "there isn't one way...there are lots of ways and you are okay as long as you are being true to yourself and seeking what fills you up and makes you happiest." Rather than a post that says, "you can't be happy because I wasn't. You are a lie, you'll figure it out soon enough." I believe you. I also believe Josh and Lolly, and their marriage reminds me a lot of my own. It is full because it is based on honesty, emotional and physical intimacy however we define it and shared sarifice. I don't think you did anything wrong, I don't think your ex-spouse did anything wrong. I don't think anything more than what you tell me is true for you. I think your story will resonate with many couples who find themselves divorced, and that is good and helpful. Just don't make your experience about being critical of someone else's. In your effort to sound enlightened, you sound bitter, close minded and judgemental.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Not much love in that there God.

    ReplyDelete
  83. I think a major and key difference between your situation and the unicorn situation is that he did not go into it expecting to change or be fixed.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry for your loss. I feel sad it came as an expense to another persons insight and feeling, especially after he had expressed that it wasnt the solution or path for everyone. If we are all open to everyone's views and love openly than we will all make things better for everyone. I'm so sorry for what turned into heartache for you did work for him. It's not a path for everyone but I'm sad to see that others here have said he is living a lie.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Thank you so much for sharing the women's side of the story. I am the gay man that took the women to the temple. You captured so well the tremendous emotions of both parties. I applaud you being able to keep friendship with your former husband. My former spouse and I could not. Please continue to share your message all you can. There is nothing broken in a gay man or a hetero women, what breaks is a relationship that should not have been. Blessing to both of you.
    Loren in AZ

    ReplyDelete
  86. Ashley!! I LOVED THIS!! Very interesting timing...My wife and I just posted our own website to the world this weekend on this subject is well...we have shared views with you on this topic in a huge way. I am going to link you to our story here...which is very similar to your own. I'd like to link your blog to our blog in some way too...we need multiple perspectives on this issue to help people see this from 360 degrees. Love you!!!

    ReplyDelete
  87. This is a beautiful post. It's truth is beautiful.

    I find it obscene that the post in which you respond is being held up as some sort of example in virtue. While the author may not have intended it as such in his wording, he had to know that's the little box people of closeted faith were going to put it in. The box that denies joy, that denies spirit, that denies a definitely for a possibility that no one can verify until after death.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Your story is not the same as the weeds. More likley your marriage ended because of the porn and not the fact that he was homosexual

    ReplyDelete
  89. Given what? What's wrong with porn and how does it automatically destroy a marriage?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Wow are you serious. Trust, intamacy, it belittles all a marriage is. Givinng your self completely to some one is for the sacred bounds of marriage. If you are abusing that by sharing that in any other way, then how could you possibly be in a marriage. Tthat was his mistake, not him being gay. This has nothing to do with the kind of love discribed in the weed post. This is some one who was not being true to his marriage that is why it ended

    ReplyDelete
  91. You have shared an extremely important perspective. Thank you for giving of your experiences this way.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Does anyone who makes silly comments like this even read history? Do you not know that marriage was a 'tool' used to proclaim land, wealth. In some parts of the country they still do arranged marriages. Marriage has NOTHING to do with attraction, attraction is a stumbling block we put before ourselves.

    Love comes through commitment, bonds, vows, learning, unifying yourself. But since most people think like you do, that is probably why our divorce rate is so high.

    Marriage has little to nothing to do with sex and attraction, those are the people who typically wind up divorced.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Haha. When I read the anonymous response, I thought at first that it was someone talking about the ridiculous post about porn ending it in the first place.

    How is "Trust, intimacy... Giving your self completely to some one is for the sacred bonds of marriage" preserved by LYING to yourself about who you really are? How can you "give yourself completely" to someone, when you aren't, and NEVER will be, attracted to them sexually? THAT seems like the type of selfish betrayal that you are trying to make porn out to be.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Ashley, What an amazing person you are!!! I love how you are proud and make a stance to share and tell everybody about your Gay ex-husband! I love the comment by one of your followers asking you if you have left the church? And he said that He hopes you have not Bc the church needs people like to stay in. You are Real and you truly are an unconditional loving soul. Matt is so blessed. God speed. Chris PS I was so moved by your blog I printed it and their are copys all over this dealership. Out and Proud!! :)

    ReplyDelete
  95. JennGood - Are you responding to someone else because I didn't say anthing about the between a man and a woman issue. That or you didn't read the end of my comment. I think homosexuals should have the right to marry too. I was just saying I think LDS culture puts unnecessary pressure on young people to marry in general, but it seems especially in the case of mixed-orientation couples. This seems unnecessarily risky to me.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Thanks for sharing this :)

    ReplyDelete
  97. Ashley, What an amazing person you are!!! I love how you are proud and make a stance to share and tell everybody about your Gay ex-husband! I love the comment by one of your followers asking you if you have left the church? And he said that He hopes you have not Bc the church needs people like to stay in. You are Real and you truly are an unconditional loving soul. Matt is so blessed. God speed. Chris PS I was so moved by your blog I printed it and their are copys all over this dealership. Out and Proud!! :)

    ReplyDelete
  98. Says, "Anonymous" - well known around the world as a mixed orientation marriage expert. If you're theory was correct, I think Utah would have a bit of an epidemic on it's hands... http://consumerist.com/2009/03/which-state-consumes-the-most-online-porn.html

    ReplyDelete
  99. Here's a more in-depth article from a local source... http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_11821265

    ReplyDelete
  100. It IS a problem. Have you any idea how many broken marriages have come from the use of porn.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Thanks for posting this. I have not shared or experienced your pain; but you beautifully articulated so many of the thoughts I have had since this topic starting migrating around the web. Thanks for sharing your pain and your soul. I hope you and your ex-husband find peace and the personal joy you both deserve.

    I hope my children and yours will live in a world were every individual can find the love of their life and find true joy.

    ReplyDelete
  102. James- Correlation does not imply causation. Just because someone is taught for her whole life that porn is evil and that her husband doesn't love her if he looks at porn, and so she divorces him, it doesn't mean that porn caused the divorce. There is nothing intrinsic about porn that destroys marriages, the teachings that porn is evil destroys marriages.

    ReplyDelete
  103. You are officially my hero.

    ReplyDelete
  104. You make a really solid point. The situations are similar but NOT the same.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Great post, except the words "gay" and "homosexual" are not interchangeable. Gay is an identity, whereas homosexual is a sexual orientation.

    ReplyDelete
  106. So all of the actual data that says porn is bad for marriages? the broken homes? Do we just sweep that under the rug to make your version work? Because well, we would have to to make your version work.

    As a friend once said, you're entitled to make your own opinions, just not your own facts. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  107. I find equally disturbing your attack on the initial poster's experience. Who are you to know? To claim that story "denies joy [and] spirit" reveals a mindset that is willing to accept one experience that fits your view, yet deny one that does not. THAT is obscene.

    ReplyDelete
  108. James,

    You're right, but you didn't present any data to show that porn destroys homes and marriages. Most data that I've seen to try to establish that have laughable methodologies (if any at all). I am open to data if you have it though.

    ReplyDelete
  109. I didn't attack the initial poster's experience. I spoke of other people who would use his post in that way. Read slower.

    ReplyDelete
  110. I applaud your willingness to share on a topic that really needs to be discussed more openly to broaden minds. I do however, feel like tearing down another's experience does nothing to help the cause. It just gives ammunition to naysayers. A feeling of openness and acceptance is being asked for on the backhand of at best semi-judgement. More progress can be made by accepting everyone's experiences as valid as they are "their" experiences. Being an example of acceptance creates more weight with those needing to learn from those willing to share. Who's to say what might work for the next person. Any one if the experiences shared have potential to inspire and give courage to those struggling in this arena. To talk negatively about anyone willing to share just creates another way for someone to feel unheard. I hope others can feel their worth and know they are important and deserve acceptance and happiness however it can be respectfully gained.
    Happiness is for everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Ashley - great post - thanks for showing the other (likely much more common) side of faith-based mixed-orientation marriages.

    I have one question, however - it's hard for me to believe someone with your experiences would still believe in concepts like "Heavenly Father", "The Savior", or "The Holy Ghost" - or that you would quote the Book of Mormon. You obviously disagree with the teachings of the Church in regard to homosexuality, which is reasonable given that you have had personal experiences which directly contradict their bigoted, narrow-minded teachings. Why hold on to these other beliefs? They all come from the same place, don't they?

    Wouldn't you agree that your ex-husband would have skipped a ton of heartache had he never been indoctrinated in the LDS faith? Why continue to endorse such an organization through your words or beliefs?

    I grant you that it would generally be a better world if Mormons were more accepting of homosexuals, but it would be an even better one for homosexuals, and everyone in my opinion, to break free from such a harmful, oppressive organization. Reform-minded Mormons may eventually win the battle to get the Church to accept gays - but there are still many others that the Church will continue to irrationally hate, including pornography users (as evidenced in this comments section), beer drinkers, girls who wear sleeveless shirts, gamblers, or adolescent boys who can't stop whackin' it (and I personally know several such people who contemplated suicide just for that). The real problem is social pressures and judgment based upon unfounded myths.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Wow interesting opinions, I must agree with anonymous, 2 posts above porn in any form is destructive by nature. I appreciate the hardships experienced in this blog. I'm a straight guy happily married 'now' that is a lesson learnt and still learning. There is a lot of misunderstandings within this post and I'm not inclined to point them all out because I have no right to. what I can say and do so firmly, is: like everyone on here we have been given atleast to some extent the ability to discern what is right and what is wrong and we are lucky we can choose either one of these polar opposites, however you don't choose the consequences. this story there has a large amount of emotional immaturity in particular with decision making. When an individual gay or straight makes decisions you make them of your own doing, you are not a victim of a circumstance, we all need fixing and none are whole. Which is why we need Christ. Everyone has their trials, no one is exempt, some greater than others which is why we cant judge but be compassionate. however to be made whole through Christ he has his unwaivering terms and agreements and that is his way. At no point is it ok to call god given good things bad and bad thing good or "whole". Truth doesn't change to suit a circumstance, we must change to suit truth and what is right. If someone feels guilt let it run its course and learn it's between you and Christ and his love is unconditional hence he forgives you, be better tomorrow than you were today.
    The truth stands of what our father expects of us and I really hope we all manage to over come ourselves to become more like him.
    My post wasn't designed to offend or upset, and I apologize if it has, (I am imperfect in writing) but truth is all that's important and we need to live it.
    Jonny.
    P.s the weeds experience was awesome and it obviously didn't come without its difficulties and self regulation.
    Being married today is hard enough in a straight marriage and I couldn't imagine the difficulties for this poor lady and man. But from the weeds we see the atonement in action.

    ReplyDelete
  113. If these so-called "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators" are blind enough that their pre-conceived notions and prejudices get in the way of their "revelations", then what good are they? They are useless, and so is their claim that they receive revelation from God - and so is your roundabout excuse for their bullshit.

    A much preferable solution is for people to wake up to how dumb the whole system is, and not base their personal worth or happiness on getting permission from men to engage in the fantasy of eternal marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  114. "Technically speaking" you are LDS??
    That is an interesting way to describe your belief system.
    Or is it just a way to catch someone's eye...

    ReplyDelete
  115. Sending love and blessings to you, Ashley, and to Matt.
    --Carol Lynn

    ReplyDelete
  116. James - did you get castrated as a child or something? If there were no such thing as sex - I definitely wouldn't get married, and I would guess most other people wouldn't either.

    Sex and attraction are a huge part.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Ashley - I have been so anxious to reply! You speak truth, honest, sincere, open your heart and gut real life story. I applaud you! I love you so dearly, you have no idea. The card that you were dealt in life I will never understand, but I feel your need to express your story. Keep doing this! In the mean time, (as you know) I have two gay people in my life that I would give my right arm for ..... I do not believe in organized religion - I cannot fathom the idea that God (a god) sent them to earth to be "wrong." Every human being is perfect in their own special way. Just some have more difficult challenges than others. Thank you for sharing your story! --Gina

    ReplyDelete
  118. I'm the gay ex wife of a straight ex husband. We divorced last month. What you describe here is perfect and I'm so glad you shared it! Good luck to you both, as well as your children.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Love and light to you both, and your lovely family. I wish you both to find true love with the spouse of your dreams. I pray for continued friendship, family connection, and unconditional love. Thank you for sharing.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Thank you for sharing your prospective on this matter. Having read the other blog I cried that he was able to tell his stake president father and never felt ashamed. I am happy for him and his wife that they have a happy and healthy relationship, but I grew concerned that it would lead everyone to think.. "see they can marry a women and be satisfied and happy". Thank you for sharing your side, that it does NOT and will not work for everyone. I hope that you and Matt will find the joy in your lives that was missing. That you can both continue to love each other and support each other.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Wickedness never was happiness.

    ReplyDelete
  122. I loved this post. Loved it. I love that it is so straight forward and honest. Thank you for sharing it!!!

    ReplyDelete
  123. jm82006@gmail.comJune 13, 2012 at 9:16 PM

    I'm sorry you thought it was silly James. What I think is silly is people like you making silly assumptions. I'm well aware of the historical and legal origins of marriage--I was speaking as a human, not a historian. What I also think is silly is the fact that you make assumptions that even though my ex-wife and I are no longer married, we live nearby, and our relationship is committed, loving, and cooperative. How is yours?

    You make lots of assumptions with very little introspection... I think your posts throughout are indicative of that. Know thyself--you'll be a happier and more spiritual person. I wish you the best in that journey.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Thank YOU. Every one's experiences are theirs. If we love unconditionally, then we accept them for what they see as happiness and JOY. Club Unicorn claims to feel full of JOY AND I BELIEVE THEM. I also believe that this Bloggers marriage and life have been painful, AND I BELIEVE HER. We all have different stories, we all view life differently. I am sorry that people claim to be open minded, yet only see this broad topic from their own view, as if it would work for everyone. Life isn't supposed to be easy. It is a test. It is supposed to be hard. Each person has to decide for him or herself which is the better part, it is a decision to be made with eternal perspective. No one is to blame for sadness in their own life other than themselves. I understand first hand how cruel and judgmental this world can be, even people in the church, but we react how we choose to. It is not our place to judge others. I feel that we judge ourselves far worse than those who we THINK are judging us. I hope that everyone can feel love, and acceptance and TRUE Joy.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Chris M.... Sex and attraction are not huge parts. You can walk down the street and be 'attracted' to 10 different woman/men. You can go to a bar and have 'sex' with 10 different woman/men. You can get married and be attracted to other woman/men and you can break vows and cheat on your spouse with other woman/men.

    your private parts work the same inside and outside a marriage. Marriage is WAY more than just sexuality and attraction. I'm sorry if you fail to understand that.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Those propositions arent meant to protect your family. You are the only one responsible for that. Bless your heart you lived through Hell itself but it wasn't anyone's fault. I read the Weed Family's post and it touched my heart. They truly seek to live the gospel, with sincerity,and through the spirit, and the redeeming power of our Savior, the have found happiness. Aren't we taught that through Him, all things are possible? Despite the difficult hardships you have faced, I hope that you never give up seeking true and everlastIng joy.

    ReplyDelete
  127. I agree with Johnny. I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that this post "has a large amount of emotional immaturity in particular with decision making." It's disappointing to me that you came to the conclusion about the Church that you did...the way that you defined "joy" is very sad and very skewed to me. I have never found true joy in my life by giving into the natural man and following every passion and temptation that the adversary throws at me. It has only been through fighting the natural man and striving to be like Heavenly Father that I have experienced the blessings that have allowed me to experience pure joy. We all have difficulties and challenges to overcome in this life. I wish that this post would have given other's hope in overcoming challenges with the assurance that they have a loving Heavenly Father who would guide and assist them. Sadly, this post implies that giving into passions is the way to be happy- which couldn't be more false.

    ReplyDelete
  128. I have to agree. To me: if you feel the need to down-play someone else to make your point it challenges the validity of your point. Probably 90% of the comments posted on Weed's post are positive and full of personable discussion where as the comments on this post seem to hover more around belligerence and anger. I do believe that the spirit in which one writes greatly effects the spirit in which others respond. Please note that I'm not making a judgement call as to which post is "right" but rather the attitude and (from what I can tell anyway) the intention.

    ReplyDelete
  129. My trouble with this blog is that it is, ironically, being judgmental of the Unicorn blog. I've read both.

    ReplyDelete
  130. There are a lot of contributing factors to this families sad experiences.
    There are a lot of conflicting opinions on pornography with its rubbish facts tests etc.
    Put it down to common sense "maybe not to common for the people justifying pornography"

    My statement in regards to porn for all the people who seem to think it takes no responsibility for its own self gratifying outcomes is:
    - even if you show facts porn doesn't lead to bad outcomes in marriages, rather then justifying it by these rubbish facts, let's ask what good does porn do in a marriage? Nothing! It Especially degrades the value of wholesome, uplifting, unifying, trust and respect to a partner to go behind their back and participate in it.

    If someone has such an addiction I'm sorry to hear and really hope you can overcome that trial. But this is directed at the fools who think to satisfy there own desires and justify it.

    ReplyDelete
  131. I think the important thing is to let people live their lives the way they want to, and to love them regardless of the choices they make. Both this article and the Club Unicorn have that message in common.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Ditto. It's a little too belligerent for me to take seriously.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Thank you for presenting another side to the equation. I find it so interesting that Unicorn's story is so widely accepted and loved and admired and yet you tell your truth and (maybe) because it isn't pretty and feel good people feel the right to pick your reality and experience apart and judge it and you. I know The Weed's family personally and they are only the best of Mormonism, but....he is having a unique experience and i am saddened and slightly concerned that members of the church seem to be using it to justify their doctrine that it's a choice and the orientation can be "overcome".

    ReplyDelete
  134. Thank you for sticking up for the Weeds. I really appreciate it.

    ReplyDelete
  135. James - I never said marriage isn't more than sex and attraction - I agree with just about everything you just stated - I just think sex is an ingredient that, if removed, would result in a lot less marriages - especially in the LDS culture where marriage is the only way to guilt-free sex.

    By the way, which bar were you talking about? I've never been to one that cool :P

    ReplyDelete
  136. There is no room for hate!

    ReplyDelete
  137. I think the thing we need to take from both posts (the unicorn post and your post) is the reminder that we need to love the people in our lives and allow the people we care about to make their own choices with out judging them harshly and leaving them alone. I sympathize with your story. I am truly sorry to read of the sadness you experienced throughout your marriage. However, I have to agree that in telling your story in the way you did you chose to judge the writers of the Unicorn Club Post. Which, to me, discredits some of what you said. I do believe that all sides of the issue need to be represented and so I think it is good for you to tell your story. What works for them did not work for you (and made you and your ex-husband feel very alone) and that is a valid perspective. But that does not make their story any less important and that does not make it false. I think you could have told your story with out having to belittle theirs. I feel like you are trying to claim that in no way are they actually happy ( just the feeling I got reading your comments about them.) Well, I can promise you that they are authentic and that their love is genuine because they are my brother and sister-in-law. So, thank you for sharing your story. But I wish you could have done so without damaging theirs.

    ReplyDelete
  138. I don't see it as being judgemental as much as i see it as being a well put counterpoint.

    ReplyDelete
  139. I agree with you, my comments are similar waaaaay above. I think this is a recipe for a hollow disconnected marriage even subtracting the sexual orientation issues. Going through motions with out the spiritual conviction is meaningless and depressing and a lie. That doesn't bring us happiness, and thankfully is not how I was raised as an LDS woman, taught to seek truth and to experience life with sincerity. I am bothered that she is responding to the Weeds because her experience from the very get go is basically as opposite from theirs as you can possibly get. I really lose a lot of interest in the experience expressed here as a result of her judging the experience of other sincere folks expressing what is true for them.

    To Jenni...this isn't about sticking up for the Weeds, it's about recognizing that there is no parallel between their story and this story. I don't know the Weeds at all, but I read their story and I also read this story and I think both accounts are very honest and real.

    ReplyDelete
  140. I appreciate what you are saying but to fear that the Weed's story is going to make other gay people from different walks of life think they can or should pursue the same relationship with another person of who knows what upbringing and life experience is kind of odd to me.

    Does knowing a gay person make you more likely to be gay? NO! :)

    ReplyDelete
  141. I agree. That is my issue with it too. It's like she is saying, "I'm more honest and enlightened than you are, you'll figure it out soon." If she could have had a story to tell that was born not in response to someone else's story and not in the spirit of mocking another person's story, I might actually believe that she came out of her experience a more open minded and informed person. It sounds to me like she came away from her experience thinking her experience is the only result of a marriage between a marriage between a gay person and a straight person. However, there is essentially zero in common with these two experiences. It's like comparing apples and semi-trucks. Completely different.

    ReplyDelete
  142. It's just silly to ask for understanding and acceptance and not display it wholeheartedly, especially to someone in the same arena as you. Don't look doen on me cause I'm Mormon, I'm certainly not going to look down on you because you aren't or decided not to be, or acknowledged your sexuality as different than before or whatever else. By discrediting someone else's experience or view you just jump right in the boat with those you are trying to enlighten in the first place. I think once the bitterness is fully released access to a more fulfilling joy can be obtained.

    ReplyDelete
  143. I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I didnt' gather that message from this read. I gather that she is open only to all gay people coming to the same conclusion her husband came to and all women married to gay men should come to the same conclusion she came to. I feel she is mocking the experience of the other family/couple. Isn't that why she wrote this? Am I missing something?

    ReplyDelete
  144. Ashley, you and Matt are amazing people full of love! You have such an amazing family. I am saddened by some of the replies that in my eyes have missed the point. I've read both blogs and I find the Weed blog a step in the wrong direction when it comes to what we need to be talking about and where we should be headed when it comes to equality. I'm going to steal from my wonderful wife and say that in the Weed post he says he's a unicorn. An anomaly. A mythical creature. Not the norm. Not the go to or a representation of the homosexual state in the LDS religion. I applaud you ashley. Thank you for sharing. I also applaud Josh Weed for sharing. It's not Josh's words I have a problem with its what people are using them for.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Ashley...thanks for sharing your experience. You and Matt endured a lot of hardship in trying to live the LDS dream. I can't believe the "True Believing Mormons" that have vilified you for doing this. The control that the LDS church places on it's members is truly suffocating. I'm glad that after 35 years as a convert I was able to walk away with my integrity intact. The church is great at shunning, not exactly a great example of Christlike love.

    ReplyDelete
  146. [...] sad reality is that many, if not most mixed orientation marriages don’t work out. Here’s one story from a woman who was in a mixed orientation (as the straight wife) that was posted today,.... A snippet of Ashley’s story with Matt: Neither of us understood at the time that [...]

    ReplyDelete
  147. Thank you for your sad and beautiful post.

    ReplyDelete
  148. "I’ve known too many gay men and women personally who have attempted either celibacy or relationships with the opposite sex, because of their strong testimonies of the church, and they DO NOT experience joy."

    And exactly how do you know what they do and do not experience? Your experiences are admittedly anecdotal, yet through them you are somehow able to draw a universal conclusion about others. I would love to know how your personal experience qualifies you as an expert on the subject of "real" joy. At least Mr. Weed had the humility and emotional maturity to acknowledge that his experience was not universal.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Mr Hoyer, you are implying I think that she is being "pre" judgmental. This is a fallacy. She IS however being POST judgmental which she has every right to be. If she, after having been through all of this, and after having read the Weed's post had no judgment to render, she would be a vegetable
    .

    ReplyDelete
  150. Your interpretation of belligerence belies your own feelings for this subject.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Further, having established that her judgment is "post" and not "pre" your comment about irony becomes meaningless at best, ignorant at worst.

    ReplyDelete
  152. Great post. Thank you so much for sharing. It was honest, heartfelt, and unlike another post that comes to mind, very believable...

    ReplyDelete
  153. For every Weed there are a hundred stories such as yours.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Interesting that you say that, Nephi. Do you think it applies to my experience? You see, since coming out and leaving the church, I've never been happier. Thus, coming out and leaving the church was not "wickedness," right? Q.E.D.

    (And, for the sake of everyone's sanity, please don't use that ridiculous, tired canard––"Oh, well, what you're feeling isn't REAL happiness."––because, I've gotta tell you, if this is "misery," may God curse me with more of it, and may I never recover. I'll take this kind of buoyant, sunny, optimistic "misery" over the excruciating, despair-inducing, loaded-handgun-in-my-mouth-putting "happiness" I enjoyed as member of the church. A few more weeks of all that "happiness" and I would've been a goner.)

    ReplyDelete
  155. I believe we make most of our choices because we’re doing the best we can in life. It’s not fair to judge others for any reason. My son is gay. We love him with every fiber of our souls. We are also Mormons. And if you’re going to call us narrow-minded bigots for that, then perhaps you should take a look in the mirror. No one knows my mind or my heart or my experience except for me. The same goes for my dear son. And the same goes for every other individual on the planet. I’ve read both the Weeds’ perspective and Ashley’s on this subject. BOTH are valid. Homosexuality is a complicated issue and there are very few definitive answers. My hope for my son is that he will find his own truth and live a joyful life in the process. What is that truth you ask? I have no idea. But I believe the Savior can help him find it. And our family will always be there to love him regardless of what happens.

    ReplyDelete
  156. "I have never found true joy in my life by giving into the natural man and following every passion and temptation that the adversary throws at me."

    That's a completely unfair characterization of the blog post. Either you need to read more carefully, or you're being intentionally disingenuous.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Perhaps, but Ashley is a bit more justified in making this statement. A flock of sheeple may have lined up to put weed on a pedestal, and make him the poster child for all gay LDS folk, but the fact of the matter is Ashley's experience is a million times more common. For every "Weed" story there are a thousand miserable couples in the same situation. It's not at all that large of a generalization.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Only 100? I'd say that estimate is very conservative.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Ashley,
    Hopefully my comments will be construed as a disagreement of opinion rather than a judgment on you or your former husband. I'm certainly not trying to discount the pain and challenges that the combination of same sex attraction and religious devotion brings.
    While not same sex attracted myself, I am a sex addict. Five years ago I parked my car in the LDS church parking lot and literally pulled my hair out in contemplation of suicide after having committed adultery yet again. I hated my double life and the contradiction between my beliefs and my actions. However, I'm not sure had I gone through with it, that anyone would have had shed a tear for the plight of suicidal adulterers or fostered a discussion on the dangers of preaching monogamy, despite its minority subscription in society today.
    Given societal perceptions, I think what gays go through is much harder than what I battle against. I only draw the parallel in pointing to my conclusion. You indicate that your husbands homosexuality is the "core of his essential being" and it is to this point I make my disagreement. While sexuality is a powerful aspect of the natural man and a key element to successful intimate relationships, it need not define us. The first and foremost urge of the natural man is survival, but the foods we eat and the shelter over our head don't define who we are, neither should our sexual urges.
    I think this was the point being made by "Weeds". Ultimately, people make the choice to either justify their natural urges and reject religion or they commit to God and his commands to put off the natural man.
    The treatment of gays has been horrible throughout history and hopefully that is starting to change in our church as well as other faiths. The question should never have been whether or not same sex attraction was natural. I can make the argument that premarital sex, masturbation and adultery is also part of our carnal and natural existence. The real question is, are you willing to shelve all of that and dedicate your life to God? I can only relate to you that It was only when I made my choice, and experienced that mighty change of heart, that I found a happiness I previously could never imagined existed.
    I can't imagine how difficult the struggle has been for you and your husband. I truly wish the best of luck to you and your family.

    ReplyDelete
  160. A thousand then! I can not over state the importance of this post.

    ReplyDelete
  161. I think that both Ashley's and the Weed's stories are heartfelt and told openly and truthfully, but I also think that this story was shared in fear, some anger, and unnecessary retaliation. The title of the post and the last paragraph indicate that Ashley felt that the Weed's story would create some type of emotion and action that she does not agree with because of her circumstances. Often when an individual is emotionally hurt by circumstances in his or her own life, this individual will perceive attacked by the happiness and joy of others. That is how this article felt to me as I read it, 'Ashley is angry because her experience was bad and the Weed's is working'. True or not, that is the feeling that I gathered as reading this blog post. In addition to the Club Unicorn references, Ashley also brings the marriage propositions into question when those are not the topic at hand and have nothing to do with her experience. Again, Ashley shows that she has an agenda other simply sharing her story. I think that Ashley is still feeling a great deal of pain in her life and that her post would have been much more open and honest without the retaliatory undertones and references to the Weed's article.
    Ashley - Thank you for posting. I wish you and your ex joy and happiness.

    Regarding my own views: I am an LDS heterosexual male, married for 12 years with 3 children. I think that both of these posts have been very informative and that with all of the open and honest discussion going on, that people will be able to be more accepting of themselves and each other.

    ReplyDelete
  162. Chris m.
    You have little to no idea mate lol. That was very general your comments on lds church. Let's just make it clear. At no point can the church be Condemned, I think your caught up on people's interpretations of what the churches truths are.
    At no point in my experience with any doctrines have i ever come across oppressive or hate directed teachings towards homosexuality. There is commandments, however at no point has it ever been exceptable in the church to hate another for anothers trials in living the commandments.
    However if a homosexual feels the lds faith is true then he may try and live it and gain as much from it as another straight man. But that's it, living it requires self desipline no matter gay or straight.
    If people have a problem and disagree with the core doctrines of the lds faith they don't need to participate, it's about us changing to suit the truth rather than us sitting back selfishly demanding the truth change to suit us

    ReplyDelete
  163. Ok Chris. You obviously have a lot of pain associated with all of this; I'll just let you have that one because I don't know you or what your experiences have been or what you've gone through and I'm sure you've got your reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  164. @Mr J Wilson. Try this test: Put a blind fold on in a dark room and wait for your sexual organs to be touched. You don't know who is touching you. You don't know their gender. It is true that you may derive some pleasure from this, but upon removing the blind fold and turning on the lights you see that the person is your own mother.

    Can you seriously tell me that you would expect everyone who takes this test to simply overcome the limitations of their sexual preference?

    Can you also tell me that despite the knowledge you now posses about the person who is touching your genitals, you could still be sexually aroused by the mere touch?
    Is it still simply a matter of the human mind interfering?

    ReplyDelete
  165. Anonforthis, Nephi didn't have the right to pass judgement like that.
    I'm sorry you were not able to find the happiness you were after in the church.
    You and I seem to have completely opposite experiences of both the same things. Being out of the church and in the church, finding Christ in all of the commotion of people's opinions and struggles and even through my difficulties was not easy but far out, it's made my life awesome. And I feel bad saying that but I owe it to Christ and the teachings of the church. I think a lot of people just miss a lot of what's important about church. But I really hope things work out for you

    ReplyDelete
  166. I agree the weed was awesome blog. I don't think it needed an over opinionated counter point which really took away from the uplifting weed blog. Thanks for dampening the whole thing

    ReplyDelete
  167. Valder, you miss the point o the majority here.
    People are upset because this blog specifically refers to the weeds and then in contrast takes away from the weeds experience. If the rolls were reversed than maybe you would have a point but there not.
    And something you should learn churches generally don't need to justify what has already been justified in scripture, that's a hard one to beat.
    But again if it was reversed I would be disappointed if the weeds was in response to this. But it's not

    ReplyDelete
  168. I kind of feel like the addiction to porn is only true if you believe it is true. The stats on Utah consumption of porn per capita seems to back this up.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Hakuna, you seem to worried about the members rather than the gospel. At no point does the church shun people especially the gospel doesn't shun anyone.
    However ignorant people usually do the shunning and it's because they don't understand. But don't rip on the church because you had some problems with individuals.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Well I guess there is no hope for a homosexual to strive for the blessings his parents had. Thanks for the dampning of the weeds experience. I personally would like what the weed has. And im not a victim I'm in control of what I want choose and I want what the weed has, yea it's a harder option but way more rewarding. I've seen a fair few people now who have achieved the same thing.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Sometimes truth is hard to hear. It "dampens" the fairytale. I wish we all lived in a magically unpainful world however we live in a beautifully painful world where things don't always have a pretty, uncluttered, Mormon ending.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Thank you for posting this. I think that all of the stories of people in mixed-orientation marriages are worth sharing, just not the ones that follow the "party" lines to stick with the desired outcome. I'm glad you're still friends and that things seemed to have worked out okay. That couldn't have been an easy place to get to. I can't imagine.
    I think you've shared some beautiful but difficult truths. I'm sorry that so many people have been unwilling to accept that NOTHING in this world actually works for everybody and refuse to accept your story and experience for what it is.
    Thank you again.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Jonny,

    That's my point though, why should one partner care if the other looks at pornography? If my wife were to impose nonsensical rules on my behavior, then I would have a hard time obeying her rules. The fact that people feel like they should control their spouses in every little thing is the real problem. Porn can do a lot of good in marriages. Many people find looking at porn with their partner to enhance their sex life. Some people may find it as a way to release sexual tension when their partner is unwilling or unable to have sex.

    ReplyDelete
  174. I am SO grateful for your post. I am dating someone who told his wife many years ago he is gay. Sadly because of kids and other reasons he was convinced that he should stay in the marriage. He fully came out. His parents and siblings accept him. But his children are having a tough time. His wife doesn't seem to help and let's the children's feelings drive their actions. So he goes home to a quiet home in silence.

    I have compassion for him. Until his house sells and his divorce is complete..seems the only time he may get enough distance maybe to work with his kids..

    Wish his wife were more like u.

    U r the best.

    ReplyDelete
  175. AL,
    i really hope for you that your partner doesnt one day ask you not to do something because they feel disrespected when you do it, because you have a warped idea of control lol. again the porn is compansating for something.
    al the fact someone can support porn like yourself and try justify makes me think you dont respect women very much. the industry is accountable for the distruction of millions of lives world wide due to rude unchast, self gratifiying people. there are millions who are forced to perform in such films, sure there are those who like working in that field. but im talking about those who feel they have no choice.
    all for the man/women who is searching to satify themself.

    ReplyDelete
  176. Anonymous,

    Why should one spouse treat the other as if (s)he were a child? I haven't imposed any arbitrary rules on the behavior of my wife, I find that would be destructive to our marriage. If your religion encourages spouses to try to control one another, then your religion seems to be destroying a lot of marriages. People like sexual experiences, and will get them whenever they can. Pornography is a great way to get those sexual experiences in a safe way.
    Pornography has only been shown to be unusually addictive if you skew the definition of addiction. I'm not denying that some people are addicted to porn, but in those cases their high porn consumption is a symptom of a problem, not the cause (this was shown by the link that you provided). Since it usually indicates emotional issues, it is exacerbated by those who rail against porn, because the guilt that people feel will feed on itself. All of your other assertions about pornography are merely assertions. I've never seen a legitimate study that backs up your claims. Show me one, and we can discuss the methodology and the conclusions that can be logically implied from it. Perhaps you are right, but asserting that you are is less than convincing. Since it is more difficult to prove that there aren't studies out there, I will wait for your evidence that there are.

    ReplyDelete
  177. tj
    Well I guess there is no hope for a homosexual to strive for the blessings his parents had. Thanks for the dampning of the weeds experience. I personally would like what the weed has. And im not a victim I’m in control of what I want to choose and I want what the weed has, yea it’s a harder option but way more rewarding. I’ve seen a fair few people now who have achieved the same thing.
    tj feel free to live in you little unhappy place, i hope u find a way out

    ReplyDelete
  178. Anon....this post in no way takes away the Weeds experience. They each have had their own experience. Both experiences are possible...however, her story is the more common one. Both can be true. What exactly has "already been justified in scripture"? Jesus himself, nor the BofM or Joseph Smith never spoke specifically about homosexuality as a sin. The bible, mostly in the old testament speaks of it, but those are specific men writing it and you can find plenty of research into the language and interpretation of the bible showing it's erroneous. But Jesus and JS and the bible condemn judging another and clearly state that it is up to God to judge. The Artlcles of Faith clearly state that we are to "allow all men to worship how, where or what they may".

    I find it telling how church members are so quick to take Ashley's personal experience away and invalidate it yet give Josh the benefit of the doubt with his. Especially everyone blaming porn....instead of the big, fat, stinky elephant in the living room....that her husband is gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And insinuating that if it weren't for the port things would be just like Josh's marriage.

    ReplyDelete
  179. Opinions are opinions, yet i can understand Hakuna... LDS people (in general) are extremely judgmental. IDK why, I think it's the true church stigma. We have one judge and one Father, but most Sundays I (at least) have at least 20-30. I cannot say ALL LDS people are that way, I don't know them all, but I will say that being a member for 25 yrs and living in many places across this country I have seen a lot of ignorance, back-biting, prejudices and judgement. Being an African American in the church is already hard. I won't say that someone has missed the idea of the gospel because the way someone was treated has helped them in their decision to walk away no more than I'll say that people make mistakes and are allowed to feel. Not everyone has the same faith, and it is not fair to say that because things happen that it's not a rip on the church. If the members aren't being Christ-like, then it IS a rip on the church, the members are a part of it. I understand that you're speaking of doctrines and not people- but even then, all are human and are entitled to their feelings whether we agree or not. Although the sign outside of our chapels say "visitors welcome" it doesn't always apply to the members acting accordingly. The gospel of Jesus Christ IS for EVERYONE.. brown, blue, yellow, or green. Gay, straight, Bi or transgender. It DOES NOT always feel that way, true doctrine or not. This is MY opinion, and so it is MY truth and my experience. I wish I only had problems with "individuals," I've had problems with WARDS because of my skin. THIS did not and does not taint MY belief in DOCTRINE, but I do understand both sides of these 2 comments.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Here's the distinction spiffy: It seems you are putting homosexuality and sex addiction in the same pot. Sexual orientation and sexual behavior/expression are not identical. Your sex addiction, or the acting out on it, is only a problem IF you are married and taken vows of monogamy and/or if you were single and it was dangerous behavior or controlling your life. Take away the adultery factor, and you're hurting no one but yourself (when you have sex compulsively as a coping mechanism). In the case of homosexuality, many view the act of acting out on it in the same boat as deviant. If a homosexual's desire to join themselves sexually with someone of the same gender and it's consensual, safe and respectful....there is no problem, I'm confused when you say "premarital sex, masturbation and adultery is also part of our carnal and natural existence. The real question is, are you willing to shelve all of that and dedicate your life to God?" Why should he have to shelve it? It's the way he was created and if done in a loving, respectful, consensual manner...it is not in the ballpark of sinful. Well....you may have chosen a belief system that says it is, but not everyone's God/doctrine does....so...let them worship how, where or what they may.

    ReplyDelete
  181. Mrs. Jane, I LOVE YOU! #thatisall :)

    ReplyDelete
  182. Pornography use is the symptom that outwardly shows up on the surface of the deeper problem....not the cause of the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  183. "Truth doesn’t change to suit a circumstance"

    Except when it comes to Polygamy, African-American's and the priesthood, and the major changes in the temple ceremony.

    Truth seems to change as often as it is beneficial to the circumstance.

    www.mormonthink.com

    ReplyDelete
  184. Sounds like Kool-Aid drinkers are here to hate on this post because it doesn't match up with their own personal beliefs.

    The woman has shared her experience just as the Weed did. We can read and judge for ourselves, but unless any of us have been in this situation we have no room to comment on it.

    ReplyDelete
  185. The problem with your point, Spiffy, is that Heterosexuals do not have to 'shelve' their physical feelings their entire life. They are rewarded in being able to express those feelings in the bonds of marriage.

    Many are born with homosexual feelings, and according to LDS doctrine, they are to never act on those feelings if they are to have the full blessings. So what it creates is an unequal system put in place by God.

    I want this portion of my children to be happy and because I created them heterosexual they will be able to acceptably experience physical pleasure. This other portion that I created homosexual will have to suffer, wait, and endure the lack of freedom to experience physical pleasure if they want to be worthy.

    It seems unfair.

    ReplyDelete
  186. Since when is life fair? You could make this same argument for the mentally retarded, physically handicapped, and and any other group not normally "accepted" by society. Try this one on:

    "Many are born with [pedophilic] feelings, and according to [society], they are to never act on those feelings if they are to [not go to jail]. So what it creates is an unequal system put in place by [the state]."

    "I want this portion of my [citizens] to be happy and because [they are] heterosexual they will be able to acceptably experience physical pleasure. This other portion that I created [pedophilic] will have to suffer, wait, and endure the lack of freedom to experience physical pleasure if they want to be [not in jail]."

    "It seems unfair."

    ReplyDelete
  187. Ashley, thank you for sharing! God bless you - you are a beautiful person!

    ReplyDelete
  188. Thank you for your beautiful words and perspective. I think it is extremely important that your side of this issue be heard and be recognized as valid and true. I appreciate how much of you went into this.

    And I ask that you please disregard the hateful comments that have been coming from both sides of this argument here on this page. Maybe they were expected, but in all honesty they shouldn't have to be. Your story was heartfelt and sincere, and my love goes out to you. I wish you the best as you continue to live and grow, and hope that I can emulate your ability to understand and accept. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  189. David,

    I think it best to refrain from drawing inferences about Ashley's motivations. It is not appropriate, in my view, to suggest that Ashley is a seething heap of jealous rage -- "angry" because the Weed's mixed-orientation marriage "is working" while hers failed. This suggestion is dismissive and simplistic. I take both Josh Weed's story and Ashley's story at face value. The Weeds have found something that works for them, while Ashley feels a responsibility to share her experience as a cautionary tale.

    Also, while the topic of gay marriage ballot propositions might not strictly be "the topic at hand" -- in as much as the Weeds did not address it -- it is certainly related, no? Josh Weed emphasizes, rightly, that his approach is not for everyone. Well, if entering a mixed-orientation marriage is not right for all gay folks, this suggests the need of other options. Marriage equality for same-sex couples seems to me one such obvious option.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Yes, I think you are missing something.

    Not once in the blog post does she tell people to end their mixed orientation marriages. She simply asks everyone to recognize that we need not seek cures for our loved ones who are homosexuals.

    I read questioning, probing, and responding. Zero mocking. I read her pleading readers to realize that the other couple's approach is unworkable for some (or many) couples, and the unworkability of such an approach, if continuing to buy the church's stance on homosexuality, will only lead to further sadness and despair. I read assertions that our homosexual loved ones are not in need of fixing, but rather, loving and acceptance, whatever they choose.

    I read concerns that that the other family's blog post will entice church members will (once again, as they did in the 70s) think that the "cure" to homosexuality is a hetero marriage, blithely ignoring the long-term damage caused by the tension and sadness and lack of fulfillment wrought by such marriages upon the homosexual partner and the heterosexual partner, who is all to often left voiceless and ignored when people like the Weeds or the Mansfields are put upon a pedestal. And let's not forget the children.

    As the product of one such marriage, I share her concern. I don't intend to mock or denigrate the choices of any family, whether they choose the mixed orientation marriage path or decide to go their separate ways. But having seen the long-term effects of such a marriage from a front-row seat, I'm skeptical that such marriages can last, and I'm even more skeptical that such marriages are beneficial, long-term, for the homosexual partner, the heterosexual partner, and the children.

    Psychological wreckage is bound to be left in the wake.

    ReplyDelete
  191. Fair points, davidb. Constantly bringing up issues outside her own circumstance detracts from her story - which is the "point" of this post, correct? To share another perspective? And yet Ashley writes defensively and seems to belittle the experiences others may be having. I have no idea what Ashley feels, but I wish her and her family all the best, and I hope she wishes the same for others.

    ReplyDelete
  192. I can't say that I disagree, and perhaps its absence in the other post is an sign of lack of fundamental problems. Tolerance or acceptance of pornography use often means that the underlying issues are masked and thus never addressed.

    ReplyDelete
  193. I am so glad I am not married to a man like you. Your view on porn, control, marriage and the sacredness of a marriage is everything that is wrong with how many view a marriage relationship. My husband wouldn't look at porn because his orgasmic experiances are something that he shares with only me, out of respect, and love. Not because of my rules. Porn is not a tool. It distroys the sacredness of relationships, and it be littles people by making them things used for gratification. Al, your views are discusting, people like you are the reason values in this world are so messed up. I can't. Even imagine the kind of person you really

    ReplyDelete
  194. Wow! So this is what happens when you have Teh Gay, but you don't Turn It Off?! You can't keep Teh Gay on low, like a dimmer switch! Remember: being gay is bad but lying is worse! Just do like Josh Weed and admit you have a curable curse and TURN IT OFF! If you don't, your Eternal Family will be torn asunder by our loving Father in Heaven and you will all BURN in the fiery pits of MORDOR! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

    ReplyDelete
  195. Selena,

    I am not seeing where Ashley "seems to belittle the experiences others may be having." Can you give some specifics?

    ReplyDelete
  196. Wow someone needs to step out from behind the sci-fi books and smell some reality. Josh Weed didn't 'turn it off'. He is still 100% gay, attracted to men. The rest of your post is just non-sense.

    ReplyDelete